Interview with Sukrita Mahon: Pattern Pricing, Financial Accessibility and Inclusivity

Hi Sukrita! Thank you so much for agreeing to sit down and chat with me. I have long been admiring your outspokenness, your thoughts and incredible amount of work you have done to educate people on anti-racism, dismantling white supremacy, and fostering inclusivity in the knitting world.

I will be honest, your last couple posts on Instagram have initially made me uncomfortable, so I sat with my discomfort for a few days, after which I decided to ask you directly about my confusions.

1. With your recent posts, are you saying designers should undervalue and not charge their worth for their work so more people can afford knitting patterns?

No, not at all. Designers work is undervalued and it’s a deep, systemic problem. It's absolutely fair to say designers are not paid their worth. But the issues were around the kind of discussions that were happening, where white women were simply saying "increase your patterns by 100% and people will pay"... Which is extremely insensitive to those who can't afford it. The concerns about affordability are shrugged off in favour of apparently white people making more money! As usual, to be honest. Knitting is already a very insular community that isn't welcoming enough to lower income people. That was the point of my posts.

I would like to see the pricing discussion reflect the diverse customer base, not just focused on rich, white people yet again. That's all.

2. It sounds like you’re saying white = wealthy and non-white = low income. Do I understand you correctly? Could you expand on this a bit more?

I didn’t make up the disparity out of nothing, the evidence for median income according to race and gender is well-documented. This Wikipedia page is a good starting point, as is this census chart.

It should be noted though that the only reason Asian is on top is because Asian men earn significantly more than most people (due to education) -- Asian women still tend to earn less than White or Asian men. See this for reference.

Setting that aside, I’m only pointing out what it looks like to me, especially in the online community, and I know I’m not the only one who sees it. The average white crafter seems to think nothing of spending lots of money on a project bag, or hundreds of dollars on yarn for a single sweater. In most podcasts hosted by white people, the unstated assumption is that this is the norm -- which it is really not. Somehow, the loudest voices in the room end up being (or appearing) rich and white.

3. As for the pattern prices, to be honest, I was in support of the idea of raising prices for patterns, not by 100%, but maybe by 10-20% to better reflect the value of work that goes into publishing a pattern. I have increased the last couple patterns I published by half a dollar and a dollar respectively. I couldn’t imagine raising much higher than that. I agree with you that it’s a privilege to get to design, but I also have trouble with the push to keep pattern prices low even if it means many designers won’t be able to continue doing this work, especially lower income designers. The way I interpreted your words, please correct me if I am wrong, is that designers should get a second job or something so they can keep pattern prices low for people to be able to afford them. If not, they should just give up on designing. While I agree it’s a privilege to get to do what you love doing for a living, I’m wondering if you’re saying people shouldn’t pursue knitwear design as a valid career choice and a valid income source?

I'm not saying that at all. People are free to increase their prices, it's hard to make a living doing anything in fibre arts. You do what you have to do.

But I do have trouble with making spaces more exclusive than they already are. Of course, I support designers, but I have been seeing a lot of really entitled behaviour from white designers specifically.

I firmly believe that creative work should be valued much more than it is -- I am one of those underpaid fibre artists too. That’s why it’s doubly strange to see white people asking to be paid more, as if they’re the only ones struggling to make a living. There seems to be a severe lack of awareness and education around what it even means to be a crafter: its devaluation today has its roots firmly in colonialism and imperialism.

It is deeper than the conversation seems to want to allow space for.

4. So, you’re saying raising prices at the scope Hanna Lisa Haferkamp* suggested is sort of a “quick fix” that won’t do anything good to anyone? How do you envision knitwear designers getting fairly compensated for their work while keeping in mind there are many low income knitters who can’t afford buying patterns at these new prices? You’ve mentioned Aroha Knits and a few other designers trialing “pay what you can” idea... also you mentioned TinCanKnits free** patterns as an example.

My solution, as Aboubakar Fofana says, is impossible. If it’s true equality and fairness we want to achieve as crafters, then it will take a dismantling of systems well beyond the design world.

But we can start with being aware of the effect we have on the world around us.

Instead of seeking personal gain, we can try to build an alternative, inclusive environment that celebrates everything about what we do. I see our power in the ability to inspire each other, and that’s something we can keep doing regardless of our financial situation (hopefully).

Every business is unique and every designer’s vision for what is possible is unique to them. I look forward to seeing innovative ways of addressing the issue. What was possible for Tin Can Knits with their free patterns may not be possible for a one-person team; others may not want to try the ‘pay what you can’ model if they’re not confident in their customer base. Being honest with yourself about what you can do is really important.


5. What do you mean by “relinquishing privilege” when you ask that of designers? What does it look like?

Relinquishing privilege is directed (mainly) at white/middle class designers who have a lot of opportunities that others don't have. There are so many things they can be doing to make the community better and helping other people. I don't see them doing that, so to demand a price rise is absurd.

I don't think it applies to everyone, BIPOC designers have less privilege and I still see them/you doing so much for the community.

6. I saw a post on Instagram asking an interesting question of whether knitters are a community or a market. From what you have said, it sounds like you think it is (or should be) a community. Can’t it be a market at the same time? What considerations (ethical etc) should businesses keep in mind when marketing to knitters on Instagram?

Isn’t it both already?

White people love ethical consumption as long as it doesn’t involve thinking about people or the society we live in. You can’t have ethical businesses that are against inclusivity, or diversity. By focusing their marketing strategy on those who have the most money, businesses are actively being exclusive.

I think most makers know how to cater to the fibre market-community already. It’s an industry based on engagement with the community. I guess my main piece of advice would be to know who your customer base is, and why.

Thank you Sukrita*** for your thoughts. I really appreciate you taking time to explain all this.



* Hanna has since posted an update about switching to “Pay What You Can” pricing model.

**Free patterns are not really free. A lot of hours and resources go into them. Patterns are offered free for many reasons: mainly, to advertise other patterns, increasing customers’ trust and loyalty, to sell featured yarns, etc. If you enjoy the free patterns by your favorite designers, be sure to show your support and appreciation if and when you can.

***If you found this post valuable, you can buy coffee (Ko-Fi) for Sukrita following this link.

Test-knitting: why and how I do them

A couple weeks ago, a fellow designer Julie Robinson asked me a few questions about running test-knits and how I do them. I wrote up my answers as a blog post hoping it may be valuable for somebody else. I have been hesitant to publish this post as I am still not sure if I am doing it right from the perspectives of both valuing my test-knitters’ work and making sure I stay solvent when it comes to my knitwear design endeavor. I still feel conflicted about running test-knits, and I have been looking for ways to make it thoughtful, meaningful, and win-win for both my test-knitters and myself. For the sake of full disclosure, I would like to make it known that my pattern sales average at about $550 a month. This amount is just enough to cover my knitwear design expenses which include:

 

a)    my tech-editors (average of $80 per design)

b)    yarn for my new designs (both for self-publishing as well as making swatches for design submissions to knitwear magazines and yarn companies)

c)    software (Adobe Creative Suite, which is $33 a month)

d)    website ($144 annual fee)

e) equipment (such as computer, DSLR camera and lens, printer)

f) office expenses (printing paper, ink for printer)

g) shipping expenses (to ship KAL and giveaway prizes)

h) professional development (workshops and books on knitwear design)

 

I do not know if this amount is reflective of how much a relatively beginning level knitwear designer like me makes, but I have a feeling this amount is not at the very bottom.

 

So, what is test-knitting?

 

I think of test-knitting as beta testing of a new pattern. By the time I start a test-knit, I have my pattern checked several times by me and my tech-editor, and I’ve already made a sample. So, for me, test-knitting is the last step before publishing a pattern.

 

I know a lot of designers get their patterns tested first, tech-edited last. I used to do it that way too, but I noticed how stressful and frustrating it was for my testers then. Now, I get my patterns tech-edited first because I want to be sure the testers are working with the final version and have as smooth experience as possible. English is not my first language (not even second, or third), so I do not want to frustrate my testers with directions that are not clear enough or there may be some errors with numbers that I have not noticed.

 

Is test-knitting necessary?

 

Yes and no. In theory, if I’m using the sizing standards and grading the sizes correctly, and I have checked the instructions thoroughly and the pattern has been tech-edited, then there is no need for test-knitting. In fact, Amy Herzog (I attended her Ultimate Sweater workshop at VKL NYC) advises against test-knits (because of fair compensation issues) and recommends finding/hiring a highly detail-oriented tech-editor.

In reality though, after working on my patterns for so long, I reach a point where I stop seeing things, and my tech-editors often seem to miss a few things (they are human too), that my patterns still benefit a lot from being tested.

 

How does it work?

 

I send an announcement to my mail list sharing as much information as possible about an upcoming test-knit: a photo of the finished design, yarn, yardage, sizes, deadlines, and my expectations. Interested knitters respond, and we go from there. Most of the test-knitting discussions happen in my Ravelry group, where I create a separate thread for each test-knit. Some test-knits have to be kept secret due to the design being published elsewhere (not by me), so I share very generic information at first. When I get my test-knitting team assembled, I share all the rest of the information through Google Docs by invitation only.

Once a test-knit is completed, I add the final pattern to the testers’ Ravelry libraries and ask them for their choice of two patterns (self-published ones) from my Ravelry store. Also, to credit them for their work, I have been adding the test-knitters’ names and links to their Ravelry pages in the published patterns. As I know exposure is one of the reasons knitters sign up for test-knits, I try my best to give shoutouts to my test-knitters whenever possible on my Instagram account.

What makes a good test-knitter?

Every knitter who signs up for and finishes a test-knit is a good test-knitter in my books. That being said, there are certain aspects of test-knitting that I appreciate and look forward to in every test-knit. I do not expect every tester to meet these requirements, and oftentimes, with the variety of testers I get, pretty much all these aspects get covered in every test-knit I have conducted.

  1. Gauge swatching. For me, one of the biggest reasons for running a test-knit is to check the fit of a garment or an accessory. Unfortunately, if a knitter does not take the time to check the gauge (and to check if his/her alternative yarn is suitable at this gauge), the result will not turn out the way it is intended, and the fit will not be accurate.

  2. Being attentive to details. Sometimes, there are knitters who read a pattern, think they understood all the directions, and then rarely consult the pattern until they are done. What ends up happening is these knitters start filling information even if it is not there or interpreting directions differently based on their first reading. Unfortunately, these testers are not able to provide any feedback. I have heard from my detail-oriented test-knitters that they approach a pattern that is being tested as if they are beginner level knitters themselves. They say this perspective helps them spot problematic areas easier.

  3. Timeliness. Deadlines are there for a reason, and I try to communicate this as clearly as possible. And, I try to set the test-knitting timeframes as realistic as possible, estimating for about 1-2 hours of knitting a day. I really appreciate the test-knitters who finish on time. I also appreciate when knitters reach out to let me know if they are struggling with meeting deadlines (unforeseeable things happen to all of us). What I do not like is when testers disappear after receiving a copy of the pattern. I get disappointed by these people and try to avoid those knitters in the future test-knits.

  4. Communication. This is # 1 reason why I run test-knits. I love those testers who reach out with questions, comments, and suggestions as needed. I also love the testers who are able to communicate through their photography. And, I do not mean professional photography per se (though it’s wonderful if one can do that), but taking pictures so they can communicate how an item fits from different angles.

 

Do testers get compensated?

 

Generally, testers do not get compensated. Should they be compensated? It depends. As a knitter, the way I think about a test-knit is if I see a design that I’d like to knit, the timeline sounds reasonable, and the yarn is within my reach (either in my stash or within my budget), sure, why not test-knit? I’d be getting the pattern for free. Plus, I love giving feedback and helping someone out. And oftentimes, test-knits have the community aspect in them that they often feel like knit-alongs.

 

On the other hand, knitting takes a long time and providing feedback (for me, this is the most important part of test-knitting) means spending even more time and effort. Because I depend on this feedback as a designer, I want to show my gratitude in some tangible ways. Usually, my testers get the final copy of the pattern they are testing, plus two more patterns of their choice from my Ravelry store.  There are also occasions when yarn companies I’m collaborating with offer discounts for my test-knitters, and this is helpful in making yarn a little more accessible and a test-knit more attractive. Sometimes when I have tighter deadlines and stricter requirements, I try to make up for this by offering yarn support, either full or partial. To qualify for yarn support, a knitter should have previously test-knitted at least two of my patterns.

 

How many testers do you usually get?

 

I try to get at least one person per size.

 

Do you have to find a tester for each size?

 

Ideally, yes, but I have a harder time finding testers for the bigger sizes (sizes after XL), which I recently started adding to my patterns. I still include the sizes that have not been tested (if I don’t manage to find testers) in the pattern because all the sizes are graded following the same grading and mathematical reasoning.

 

As a knitter, I feel more confident about starting a new sweater when I see its finished version in my size. So, this thinking makes me want to make sure all sizes get tested. However, sweaters take a long time and a lot of yarn to make, and the bigger the size, the more it takes to finish one. Moreover, Amy Herzog mentioned that one cannot fully rely on test-knitters’ feedback about the fit because we cannot see for ourselves if those knitters’ gauge is consistent throughout the project and what the exact finished measurements are. Because of these reasons, some designers (those who can afford) and most yarn companies hire sample knitters.

 

Sample knitters are different from test-knitters in that they get compensated for knitting a sample. The biggest difference between sample knitters and test-knitters is that the former is a contractor and has a strict set of rules to follow. Sample knitters receive yarn, and they get paid at an agreed upon rate. This rate varies at approximately 10 - 30 cents per yard (or meter) depending on the company and complexity of the required knitting. Sample knitters send the finished objects (FO) to the companies that hired them. These FOs are checked to make sure all the pattern directions have been followed and all the measurements are consistent with the pattern schematics before payments can be made.

In the ideal world, designers should make enough money to compensate for their test-knitters and be able to afford hiring sample knitters. The reality is many designers do not. How do we go about this then? I’d love to hear your thoughts.

Finding My Balance on Nauryz

Today, March 22, is an important holiday in Kazakh culture. It’s called Nauryz (meaning “new day”), and it coincides with the Spring Equinox. The holiday celebrates the balance between day and night, harmony in nature and our lives, the beginning of new year, and peace among people. Growing up in Kazakhstan, I loved this holiday as a kid because there were so many festivities and so much good food and everybody seemed happy on this day. As an adult, it’s the holiday that always kindles hope for more balance and harmony for me. This Nauryz, I realized balance and harmony are the very things I’ve been missing in my life lately. I decided to reclaim them by writing my reflections on things that have been causing me a lot of distress lately.

The conversations of racism in the knitting community that started in January of 2019 affected me deeply. As I read posts and heard stories, I felt instant recognition. I felt like what I have been missing in my time in the knitting community, what I could not quite put a finger on, was finally being talked about -- in a language that was new, scary and cathartic to me. Scary because people were hurt and accusations were made. But cathartic because it confirmed something I had been feeling for a long time but lacked the ability to articulate it.

When I was 30 years old, I left my entire life behind and moved to a different part of the world to be with the person I love. In Kazakhstan, I valued my independence, I earned enough to support my parents and brother, I had an established circle of friends. When I arrived to the US, I had to start my life all over. Because of my visa status, I couldn’t apply for jobs, my teaching certificate was not valid here, and, on top of that, we found out we were expecting a baby. In the search for a new identity in a new place, I picked up knitting as a way to keep my mind occupied. Later knitting turned into a life-saver as new motherhood left me completely lonely and isolated. Knitting kept me awake during night-time nursing sessions, and helped me keep my sanity as I held my babies upright throughout the night due to their severe reflux.  During an extremely lonely period, I started sharing my creations online. The warm feedback and compliments from strangers helped me feel a little less lonesome.

As my work gained more attention, I started to sell my knitting designs to support my hobby. As my patterns began to sell slowly and consistently (bringing in a modest income), I started to wonder if I could make this a sustainable form of income as a stay-at-home mom. What I saw on social media led me to believe that I could give this a try. On Instagram, I noticed many stay-at-home moms who seemed to have turned their passions into sustainable businesses that let them support their families and give back to their communities.

So, I worked hard to learn knitwear design -- I took online classes, read  books, and knit a lot. I noticed how successful designers used certain yarns, certain brands, certain products, and had relationships and friendships with key players in the industry. I tried to keep up with the latest trends in the knitting world, tried to foster connections, and tried knitting with patterns designed by successful designers to learn from them. But it seemed like I was missing something. My pattern sales didn’t reflect the growth in my skills.

On Instagram, the posts/Stories where I shared thoughts and feelings about being an immigrant and person of color in this country got the least engagement of all my posts. Some even unfollowed me right afterwards. Just recently, I mentioned Kazakhstan in my Instagram Stories and immediately lost followers. The patterns where I’m the one modeling designs get the least amount of sales. The feeling of being an outsider kept nagging at me. I couldn’t quite put my finger on it, but I thought  it was just in my head as my husband (who is white) constantly tried to reassure me that people didn’t treat me differently here because I am Central Asian, an immigrant and have a different accent.

In these past few months,  I started to pay attention to how little diversity I saw among the successful people in the knitwear design world. Before, I dismissed my own feelings  of being an outsider, of not seeing anyone that looked like me held up as “success”, because I thought I was the only one who had these feelings. It was too easy for me to dismiss and erase my own feelings. When I visited Stitches Midwest and Vogue Knitting Live this past year, I was in awe of the diversity and creativity of the attendees. But this diversity was not reflected in the works that were featured by the vendors, in the displays, in the teaching staff, or publications. I also started to notice how white-washed my Instagram feed had become and how little diversity I saw in the feeds of the people/companies I was following and then emulating.

Since January, big-name designers and companies started sharing how they’ll now try to be more open, inclusive, and transparent, while they then quickly moved on with their regular programming. It felt like business as usual for them. Other brands completely disregarded this subject. Social media started to feel like a big crevasse with people sharing the pain of injustice on one side and unaffected people continuing to push their patterns, yarns, and products on the other. I found myself falling into an abyss of confusion, sadness, and disappointment.

Because I felt it was important to add my voice and experience, I started to join the conversations of anti-racism and fostering inclusivity. That also led me to question my own integrity in working with people, products, and brands whose position on the matters of inclusivity were vague, which seemed to show their indifference. Some well-established figures in the knitting world started following my account and one prominent publication reached out with words of sympathy and a vague promise on collaboration in the future. Given that they never showed interest before or after this message, this felt like maybe they were paying lip-service in the hopes I wouldn’t speak out against them. A few designers  and small companies I had previously established relationships with seemed to distance themselves from me (ignoring my direct messages and a drop in their engagement with me on social media). I couldn’t help but wonder, are they uncomfortable with my recent involvement in anti-racism conversations? Should I have just stayed silent and played it safe? If I had, would they still be communicating with me now? The message I took away was that I should not talk openly about the problems within the community for the fear of losing existing relationships, collaborations, and contracts; and for the fear of ever securing any future ones.

Feeling worried  and confused, I reached out to a well-known figure in the knitting world who has been a big advocate for BIPOC/POC representation. She didn’t hesitate to help me navigate a tricky situation with a yarn company that I was collaborating with. The company had stopped answering important emails pertaining to our collaborative project, and their engagement with my IG account suddenly dropped, which left me concerned that the company might be against addressing the issues of racism and that they didn’t want me speaking up about it either. Thanks to the encouragement from this ally, I got enough courage to write to this company about their behavior. It turned out to be a series of unfortunate timing coincidences, but they reassured me they were on the side of inclusivity. But, to be honest, that intent did not come through in their initial, brief generic statements on Instagram, and the business-as-usual promotional content on their feed and nothing on their website.

Just recently, one of my designs got accepted by a publication that has never featured a non-white model or a designer. I was initially so excited thinking, “Finally, I’m good enough to be accepted!” But this excitement quickly wore off because of our interactions after that. There was a serious delay with sending the contract and their “take it or leave it” response to my request for extending their extremely tight deadline (due to the delay they themselves caused) left me wondering whether they really valued me as a designer or I was merely a token minority they felt obligated to include. I wondered, do they treat all their designers this way or was their business conduct an expression of how much they undervalue me as a designer of color?

I am  disappointed that the notion of “inclusivity” is commoditized in this way. As a knitwear designer who’s just starting to see the “behind the scenes” of the industry, I'm disappointed that once my design submissions get accepted, the deadlines and deliverables they expect are unrealistic, bordering on disrespectful. The time allotments for designing and knitting a sample(s) are simply untenable for designers who are either stay-at-home-parents or full-time working folks, who do knitwear design as a side hustle. Design commission payments I’ve received show me it can never become a sole income source, unless I publish an insane amount of patterns (a new design every week) or teach at many big profile fiber events. To teach at a fiber event (according to Clara Parks), a typical contract states that instructors cover the costs of travel/lodging and be responsible for filling the classes as the payment system is based on the number of students taught. Although, they may offer a stipend to partially cover the costs, to qualify for this stipend, one needs to teach 3-6 hours a day, which is often unlikely as organizers do not trust new teachers to schedule that many hours of classes per day. Clara noted herself how exploitative, though common, these contracts are, leaving newbie teachers in debt after teaching an event.

As for local yarn stores, I have visited and purchased from 4-5 that are near to where I live (Albany, NY). Although the interactions have been polite and courteous, I notice how their tone changes immediately when I inquire about possible teaching opportunities there (smile disappears from their face, and they find an excuse to end the conversation abruptly). The last one I visited told me the owner doesn’t hire anybody because she teaches all the classes herself. Quite accidentally, I overheard one of the ladies at my local Knit Night (where I’m the only person of color) share that she had been invited to teach classes at that same store. My heart sank, but I tried to brush it off thinking it’s probably an unfortunate coincidence. Is it though, or is it because as a young, Asian immigrant, I look so different from their clientele that I get automatically rebuffed?  Instances like this keep happening, and I’m starting to doubt these are merely coincidences.

No one says this outright, but it seems that whenever I bring up feelings of being “other” in my Instagram account, I end up alienating my followers. I lose followers, engagement drops and sales do not happen (compared to posts where I do not mention those topics). It almost as if the knitting community does not want knitting accounts to talk about politics, identity or belonging; they prefer pretty pictures of knitting. I would love to be able to do that, too. I wish could turn off my feelings of being an outsider, but, as a person of color, I do not have that privilege. I cannot avoid being who I am or keep erasing myself for the comfort of others. I do not want to be an activist, but I do not want to be erased either.

Last week, my husband and I had yet another conversation about my place and my future in knitwear design, and I finally had to face the hard truth that I don’t think I can make a career out of this because the industry feels like a rigged game. In Becoming, Michelle Obama shares that in the nonprofit world, only privileged people can afford staying in the field because that type of work doesn’t guarantee steady income. It’s usually white folks who dominate this field because they have support systems to help them (family, connections, financial support, inheritance, etc). The knitwear design world seems similar to what she’s describing, which is why I don’t see much diversity here either. I can’t afford to keep investing my time, energy, and money in an area that seems to have no space for my full self.

Perhaps once my sons start school next year, I’ll look a for a day job and scale back on designing. Realizing this is an option for me has taken the pressure off trying to succeed in this field, which in turn is allowing me to show my true self, focus on what’s important to me and speak my truth. I’ll make whatever time I have left as a knitwear designer count and will do my best to work with people and businesses who are dedicated to fostering inclusivity. With more opportunities for honest communication and feedback, maybe we’ll reach the point when people and businesses will know what true inclusivity (acceptance, respect, transparency, trust, equity) looks/feels like and will strive to foster it in their businesses. If anything, this kind person who extended her helping hand to me during the moments of utter frustration kindled a hope that there are people who are genuinely invested in transforming this community to an inclusive one, the kind I hope to be a part of.